Talk:Basques

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Race[edit]

Basques are historically a little people (about 300.000 in 1800, a 1,5% spanish population). It's impossible these figures of Basque descendants (about 10% argentine people and others). For example, in the list of 100 most common surnames Argentines, only two Basque surname: Aguirre (126.000), Leguizamon (48.000). In addition, the Basque emigration to America is very small, as the Basque Country became industrialized at mid XIX and there was little emigration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.159.7.209 (talk) 22:48, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Basques are a race, look at Armand Marie Leroi who proves that. We should add his article as a citation.

Basques are indoeuropean R1b haplogropup in 90%, the MOST RECENTS inhabitants of Europe. The basque lenguage its a koine of africans languages and celtic and latin. The basque myth... its only nationalism propaganda sustained by Basque government and institutions with much money and much violence.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

And... Argentina 3.5 million, Chile 1.3 - 2.6 million, Cuba 1.5 million? it's a joke? In Spain, much less than 40% of the Basque provinces inhabitants are 'Basques'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.154.74.94 (talk) 00:31, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


JUST in Spain as a whole, there are 4 million spaniards (outside the Basque autonomus community and Navarre autonomous community) with basque surnames (and with that, having basque ancestry). This figures count people with basque surnames in the world. In Argentina, Chile, etc... there is a large basque descended community. JUst in Chile figures about Basque ancestry are in between 10% and 20% of the population. So The figures are not incorrect. Saying this, we have to be carefull in for example the philippines where some people may have basque ancestry and some may have a basque surname as a given name, given to his ancestors who converted to christianity and adopted a new surname. You are also forgetting about the french basque diaspora and the basque navarrese diaspora. - signed by anon IP

Basques are a race, look at Armand Marie Leroi who proves that. We should add his article as a citation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.31.154.71 (talk) 14:39, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Basques are indoeuropean people like spanish and south french people. Their language is a koine of Iberian, Celtic and Latin, emerged in III BC. Basques was only 200.000 people (total in Spain and France) in 1700. Stop Basque nationalist propaganda in Wikipedia.

Blah blah blah, go away and find a reliable source (good luck) or your crap will get reverted out, that's how it works. Akerbeltz (talk) 10:55, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
It is a disputed theory on Basque people are the closest descendants of Cro-Magnon and earlier, Neanderthal species, other than human races. The majority of Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal remains tend to be in the Pyrenees of France and Spain. Geographical isolation and limited contact with Indo-European or Latin/Romance speaking peoples whose nations later claimed to rule the Basque country is theorized to preserved a high percentage of rare genetics. RH negative and O type blood frequency is the highest among the Basques than any other nationality or ethnicity, as well links to Central and East Asia, and even indigenous peoples of North and South America. And studies of COVID-19 survival and recovery rates on these countries' Basque people by coincidence were among the highest case counts in the world, but there were theories of the first human (common cold) coronaviruses from felines or cats infected Cro-Magnons who domesticated them and managed to adapt to a possible SARS like virus in the last ice age. Basque nationalists and genetic scientists theorized these people are among the world's oldest ethnic cultures. 2605:E000:100D:C571:94BD:B0F1:A6B9:12B5 (talk) 01:30, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
Sources? --Kgfleischmann (talk) 06:42, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Population figures[edit]

Please note:

  • ideally only census data with self-declared national identity (like in the US data)
  • no estimates of "descendents", there are millions of Americans descended from Germans but that does NOT make them German
  • no blogs/news articles that don't actually specify the source for their data, there's all sorts of crazy claims out there

Akerbeltz (talk) 14:22, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Please note:

There are many sources for ethnicity and ancestry data which are valid apart from government statistics, regardless of national identity; ethnicity or racial identity are not the same as national identity. The is about Basques as an ethnic group or ethno-nation, which is based on descent and ancestral/racial origin, culture and language, not as some looser definition of nationality.
There are indeed tens of millions of Americans of German descent, some of whom can claim German citizenship via jus sanguinis. Regardless of nationality or citizenship though, it doesn't change their ethnicity/race/ancestry as being German or German American; they are not genetically, physically or culturally the same as other ethnicities in America. Being of German descent does make you German in terms of ethnicity/race/genetics and/or culture and/or language. FYI, over 1 million German Americans speak dialects of German at home. Ethnicity/race is not the same as citizenship, and often is not necessarily the same as nationality.
The sources I provided are valid academic sources for Colombia, either from books or organizations or academic articles. You made a fair point about the citations for Argentina though, which I removed. 174.119.80.219 (talk) 01:27, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
A lot of these "sources" use very iffy methods to come up with their figures. Many rely solely on counting Basque surnames for instance and while Basque surnames are often easy to spot, there are all sorts of reasons why that is not a reliable way of counting ancestry. The infobox is just the wrong place for that - I'm even somewhat uneasy about including the US figure. Mostly infoboxes state the figures for members of the ethnic group today and significant diaspora members who emigrated during their lifetime and/or still hold citizenship or are still speakers of the language (like French Canadians). Most of the figures you keep trying to add are neither of those. We already have a section on the diaspora which contains various nebulous claims about possible ancestries... No one disputes that there was a significant number of Basques who ended up in the New World. But inflated/unreliable figures serve no one. Akerbeltz (talk) 10:41, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
The US figure is a valid figure, from a reliable source. The numbers of ethnic group diaspora members is not just about members who still hold citizenship to a state or who can still get citizenship, but those who are part of the shared descent from that ethnic group. Most ethnicities are distinct from that of any existing nation-state. There is no Basque citizenship yet, last I checked, and Basques are ethnically completely distinct from other members of the nation state of Spain (genetically, physically, culturally, historically and linguistically distinct to be specific). Likewise, not all people living in the Basque Country today are ethnic Basques. To elude to your original point, 1 million German-Americans still speak German at home, and even those who do not, German languages have influenced regional American English dialects in the American mid-west. Ethnicity numbers from diaspora communities are thus not restricted to use of language or possible citizenship to a certain state. The ethnic group and disapora numbers are members with shared linguistic and cultural feautures and/or a shared descent/ancestry (which includes shared genetic, physical and cultural/behavioural features). Those of full or mostly German descent still are genetically part of the German ethnicity or "volk", and closest to them in genetic and physical, and some behavioural attributes. Thus, numbers based on ancestry/descent are included in infoboxes, because descent is part of being a member of that ethnic group, regardless of the varying levels of cultural, religious and linguistic similarity. Of the 40 million or so German-Americans, some retain more German cultural and linguistic features than others, and arrived in the US at different times. German-speaking Hutterites, for example, in Germany, Canada, the US, and Brazil are of a common German genetic/ancestry to a specific region of southeastern Germany and Austria, and also speak similar German dialects, and have shared cultural customs with those who have ancestral roots to the indigenous population in Germany or Austria. A German-American who speaks Hutterite German has a better linguistic and genetic connection with an Austrian German from Tyrol than that Austrian German from Tyrol has with a German from Hamburg who speaks an unintelligible Low German dialect. Libertas et Veritas (talk) 20:45, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
I have never tried to remove the US data which is indeed from a reliable source. The population figures which I have consistently removed are those where somebody checked the phonebook of X and found Y Basque looking surnames (or the equivalent thereof). Akerbeltz (talk) 22:36, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Eupedia.[edit]

Eupedia thinks R1b-L21 was in Ireland more than 4000 years ago. If this turns out to be true, than we don't know the haplogroup of Celtic conquerors. Even in Switzerland ancient branches of R1a-M417 make up like 17% of haplogroup R. --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii (talk) 08:10, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Basque Incoherence of figures of etnicity and descent[edit]

There are incoherences of content regarding Basque figures. For example in articles such as Basque Argentines or Basque Chileans, figures state a 3 to 3,5 million people for argentina and 1.6 to 2.7 million people of basque descent in Chile. This figures should be shown in this article in the same way German americans or German argentines are shown in the etnicity article "Germans". I think the data showing the total people of basque descent is not accurate at all and figures of the Basque diaspora, which are consider of basque descent and can even preserve basque culture should be included in the Basque article. This will solve the contradiction between the Diaspora articles, the Foreign Descent articles and the Basque ethnic one.

I can't police every page on Wikipedia, just because there's junk on the diaspora page, doesn't mean that should be there either. I've looked at the "articles" that are used as "sources", they're all junk, they are almost all rough estimates based on the frequency of Basque surnames and for the millionth time, having a Basque surname doesn't make you Basque. The only admissible data are really census data actual research into identity. That's why the US and Canadian data is included because it's actual census or research data into (albeit self-declared) ethnic identification. Someone counting how many people called Izagirre are in the Buenos Aires phone book is fun, but not hard data. Akerbeltz (talk) 16:51, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
First of all the "sources" aren't junk. Some are based on government data. Nevertheless Im going to check the sources personally. Stating the Basque population as being just 3 million when millions of basques descendants live abroad, well is a lot of miscalculations. I understand the data may be unreliable. I will check it as I said. And again for a millionth time again: Having a Basque name automatically makes you a Basque by descent and basque by ethnicity (Except in the Philippines), just as someone having a German or Finnish Surname in the USA makes them of Finnish descent or ethnicity but not a Finn by nationality but an American. In the Finns article for example, Finnish American or Finnish Canadian are stated as Finns. Same should be done in the Basques article for the sake of Wikipedia's coherence. Someone born in Argentina and raised there with Basque ancestors and a Basque surname is a Basque by descent or ethnicity thus should be classified as such like in every other damm article. Alejojojo6 (talk) 17:51, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
The Finnish Canadian data is based on a census where people were able to indicate their claimed descent. That's very different from someone counting surnames in a phonebook. Doesn't matter how often you repeat yourself, you cannot assign people an ethnicity just based on the surname. Take an extreme example - a slave owner has a Basque surname. If the slaves are manumitted, traditionally they take their former owners surname. Now ignoring how offensive a convention that was, there is no way in hell you can claim these are suddenly all ethnic Basques. But their (male) descendents would carry the Basque surname. Akerbeltz (talk) 21:55, 3 August 2020 (UTC)